906:

Just a minor issue, there's a C3> Zanmu in the changelog, should have been C5>

Idk if im blind but i did not see it

905:

whats mvsatori's aoe damage like with only yin atk or yang atk boosts?

Iirc it was like 200-300k which is really not that great

904:

This may be just my device and/or my opinion, but the size of the character icons are so or too big (8 characters for a row when it comes to size) to the point it makes the site looks disproportionate.

even w/ the tierlist icon toggle button?

A9 Aya to F because what does she even do. Like even Y5 Tewi has better "uses" than her because she has the better utility and support while equal in debuffs.

Sure

903:

saying cs2 is top 1 is weird to me for a couple of reasons. first is that she loses a ton of effectiveness if her partner cant burn. not that she cant function but in modern stages duos with the vast majority of non-burn units is impossible. she just got lucky that most of the relevant yin units are burn focused. cz2 on the other hand kinda dont have that restriction, as long as someone can pull out an inflict on gauge 2 (greatly helped by cz2's party 1p) the early breaks carry her damage through. similarly if a stage has burn immunity issues cs2 is hit much harder than cz2 would be on a para immune stage, damage is still damage. the second and less tierlist-rules-guided reason is that cs2 is much more box dependent. like amazing support is great and all but...you still gotta have someone to support. like on the majority of stages as long as cz2 isnt heavily shafted she at least functions if not carries with generous qualifications for teammates (you gotta have some breaks, probably rank ii too but thats every other new unit these days). meanwhile if you walk up to a stage with cs2 but no one who can actually kill you uhhh cry i guess. this also starts to dip back into the territory of non 10sp ds100 farms where people who don't have overflowing boxes throw together whatever works to farm/clear, and in these scenerios i think cz2 is confidently better (the stored power pulls so much more weight with a third teammate not to mention cz2's innate support). idk. it feels weird to name the best unit in the game someone who cant really do damage on her own and despite her amazing strengths still has to get a somewhat aligned nuker or get stuffed.

Tbh i don't have much to add. From a tierlist making perspective it makes sense.

901:

I know it would be a lot of work but eventually I want to see the icons for F tiers and have filters applicable to them. After all many are still cute

I think that would cause a lot of performance issues since it's +100 images that need to load so im hesitant

900:

Pink miko downtier? Or at least not so high in the ex tier. All the other units there get used in ds and ebl much more than her. I guess cause her dmg to eff up and crit atk ii up do nothing useful to help her deal damage to enemies she doesnt hit crit or eff (at least with p0), which is very common. Nowadays you need some kind of sp or atk ii up to do damage easily, since you can remedy normal buffs easily with any epic card. Miko can easily get high normal buffs, which is good, but not on par with the others in ex tier

Sure

899:

Maybe lower Gengetsu and L80 Kasen a little? Gengetsu just doesn’t do notable damage nowadays even if she hits her (bad) killers and being just a break bot with a decent rank II damage amplifier is not giving her a significant edge over muremi or heck, ex eika. Her slow speed relative to modern units made using her def down a lot more troublesome. The slow powercreep and the shift to res content mean that she can’t just slap a 50% light -3 def down card to magically deal a lot of damage to enemies she can’t FB. Basically her kit and numbers are not broken enough like Cs2# Satori to let her get away with doing little damage. Duoing exclusively and inconsistently with SS+ units (not even S-tier) is just not a positive sign of her current strength.

Gengetsu I want to lower and have for a while now but Hibi won't let me. Our argument was quite long and I don't think I can fully transpose everything but the nature of their argument is essentially that she is still universal support on paper. But i don't think it is a good argument. if she continues to fail this may be revived again. I still want to drop her she should be in SS but whatever.

L80 Kasen AoE tends to fail the nuke with every rank I buff capped despite hitting killers. In other words she needs at least one decent source of rank II amplifier, making her a lot less universal than she once was. Considering she already hits killers on the vast majority of recent yin DS, this is just not promising. Her G3 nuke on killer still holds up but we have actual competitors like mv yukari and muflan now.

I don't think relying on Rank II buffs makes her suddenly no longer universal as a lot of EX is also... kinda like that. and in general her numbers/performance haven't warranted such. again she SHOULDN'T be performing this well she SHOULD be mid but she just isn't.

897:

Cs2# Satori above Cz1# Marisa

Cs2# Satori doesn't really AoE nuke but her ridiculously broken support coupled with 7/4 breaks and a good skill layout completely changes how yin meta works and makes almost every yin unit shillable . Meanwhile Cz1# Marisa starts to show signs of fragility between 6/3 breaks and no damage to res even with every buff min/maxed already the difference between her and L0oishi may not be that large - L0oishi has a slightly lower rank II amplifier and fewer practical buffs but her AoE is innately a lot stronger and yet both can fraud out

Dedicating the entire team to support Cz1# Marisa is no longer the braindead strategy it once has been, even if her above average support gives her a notable edge over other “mememe the AoE nuke” units

Thanks for giving me and hibi something to argue about for the next 3 months

Anyways... I (Medi) agree! and have for the last 2 or so weeks. I do not think cz2's selfish playstyle is as useful when she is by and large mostly just duoing as a dmg bot with other ss/ex tiers. while cs2 has bent the entire yin meta around herself and can duo stages with basically anyone half-competent.

So the problem hibi has is both of them kinda are equals but cz2 has a better time duoing with people for example she should be able to consistently duo with c3 kagerou (a c tier) which satori doesn't have as often because her damage is not universal like cz2. and that a lot of units like even exkosuzu aren't able to duo with cs2 because of said damage issues. while cz2 should always generally work as long as you are not trying to duo with a unit wiht 0 rank II skills

But again i don't fully agree with this and i think there are flaws here. so i can't promise any changes but i am pro cs2 > cz2.

896:

What is the point of the "tier statistics" part of the page when it just provides zero important statistics besides showing how many characters per tier it has. I feel like having unnecessary additions doesn't particularly provide any useful info unlike the actual character descriptors, its not my tierlist to design but this part of the website bothers me given it's useless

I added it in because i like it and it is ssomething i wanted to have. if you don't like it, then just hide it. or you can suggest more "useful" things for you.

Honestly, I'd probably want to see character calcs on characters spellcards to gauge character's strength in certain situations

I do plan to do this! However I have been very busy lately and unable to work on it. But rest assured this is definitely plannned.

EX Okina seems pretty solid but I am unsure if she's top of S when she looks more middle of S, maybe it's the spell card elements being more awkward in their placement albeit still being a great breaker. As well as being a Yang unit who isn't immune to Poison

This sounds nitpicky but I could see why she isn't SS, you can argue she's properly rated or slightly overrated, I'd probably wouldn't disagree

Well... she does have 45% dmg to res after all. That actually makes her dmg role better than her util bot/geng role since her support really is that bad. But her damage is quite good with the res in mind.

895:

I think D8 Yuyuko's notes are a little misleading, since her aoe doesn't have foundational presence on p0.

Yeah, edited.

893:

Are you willing to continue adding icons onto upcoming characters soon?

Not sure what this means. The banners/class indicators? No.

892:

Changelog says "Added C3 Tewi and A11& Tewi" instead of A11 Kisume

fixed

891:

I would argue that making a S- tier grouping the “slops” in lower S and the least slop units in A (exkosuzu/exyuuka etc.) would better indicate strengths. S: potential to be a carry herself, acceptable level of consistency with appropriate partners. S-: must be carried by a strong partner but can make decent contribution in comp. A: borderline trio tier, only putting in a basic level of contribution to a duo

I do see the idea here but i dont think we would go through with this. there are probably bigger gaps within A itself but i don't think there are enough "Bad S + Good A" units to warrant a new tier, since it would probably be around 15 people. But i will consider it more because again i do understand the idea and there could probably be some better indication of seperation between good A units and... actual dogshit. the end problem is these units have too many issues to function with a deadicated fix which is just a tier in a nutshell which is probably not worth warranting a seperate tier when there's similar gaps within B.

I think exmami support is currently overblown. AoE1: 3 Yang atk 4 acc + 3 Yang def OR 4 crit atk from card. AoE2: 4 crit atk 4 crit acc 0.7p (sometimes forced to use because her p issues are significant). LW: 2 Yang atk ii 4 Yang def -3 Yang def -3 crit def (main part she is winning). Skills: 3 Yang def 4 Yang atk 2 acc II 0.7p

while even narumi, who is described to have “underwhelming” support for her tier, has all these. AoE: 3 Yang atk 3 acc 0.5p (basically the same). LW: 2 Yang atk ii 3 Yang def (no def down without Suwako card but she nukes better). Skills: 3 Yang def 4+3 Yang atk 3 acc 0.5p (obvious win). Most notably 70% SYNC, party crit atk on boost (vastly kills the competition)

I feel like power creeping has really taken a toll on the better supporters when they slip in more and more buffs even to standard kits. Her 7/3 breaks were considered “spamming breaks” when nowadays bringing her for breaks and accuracy utility alone is an easy recipe for failure when most units who can nuke always break late

You're not wrong, though I'd say it's more 'unconventional' than anything. She's basically a perfect match for someone like Smiko, though for other characters yeah lacking a rank II dmg amp on her skill really drags her down for the most part. I'm not sure if it's so bad that it's worse lowering her for the time being as i think even without a rank II her spellcard buffs, even if spread out, are a bit better than people like Shecc with low turn 2 buffs and only 6/3 breaks. Since rn having any access to 7 breaks is just vastly more important than a lot of things. But i might look into having someone like ex eika above her.

890:

Maybe L80 Kokoro lower in S? It feels like every single use for her in practice just flops below expectations, all the stages she does work in just blatantly favors her. In theory, I just don't see how she is much better than Narumi considering her much worse support, and how she can't properly utilize her good breaks thanks to being slow. Kokoro's AoE's killer range is also greatly inflated thanks to parapres despite it being below average thanks to lacking the God killer.

Tbh. Yeah. Her res damage is pretty bad and this character in general is probably one of the most overrated characters in the game. So she really doesn't have much above Narumi these days.

889:

C3 Narumi can be higher in S. she has no accuracy issues (unlike pink miko who became very annoying to use without ice sword), sets up her own def anoms, has a 3T 70% sync skill, party crit atk on boost, 2 party Yang atk skills. By covering all buffs to some extent, she can be quite easily set up as a nuker especially when on killer - her practical res damage isn’t terrible as she doesn’t need to be supported from scratch. Her party support is not even that bad for S tier (exsatono and fall Nitori looking at everyone funny) and she is honestly not that far off from mvkokoro other than breaks

Tried her out again and i think you have a point, she was doing quite well... put her above gamer nitori for now

888:

I'd argue C3 Yuyuko is worse than EX Okina. Even though Yuyuko has the (slightly) better support and better debuff thanks to Sanshoku, I think Okina's 7/7 breaks and 2(3) anomaly breaks are better than Yuyuko's universal damage. Especially, when Okina also have decent damage potential on her AoE and LW from good killers and damage to Res. It also doesn't help Yuyuko's case that she particularly have troubles on setting her scaling as well.

I see the argument, but ultimately, no. Not post rein. Both have dogshit support, and while Lolokina wants to have the util to make up for her bad support, her damage just isn't enough. Last gauge realistically is not that good given current cards/units/expectations. Both have dogshit support, but Yuyuco's universal damage—one that is actually achievable at that, is just too valuable. Much like Muflan and Mvkari. Yuyuco's role is just too valuable in the modern day as chars like her largely don't fail so for lolikina to win, she NEEDS to have the util role of a duo being just as consistent as a rein coco is at damage in a duo

887:

Usually I know L1s will never be that relevant in current LW, but seeing Chimis kit, that has to be an AI generated kit I don't think I've seen a terrible kit design for a Fes/Gen level unit since A18.5 Nitori, solo LW, -5 Def, and a very badly allocated stat spread, Gen units barely have Spell Card buffs but yeah At least I remembered that all the Touhou 19 characters didn't have a solo and were pretty useable in their short time (except Zanmu and Hisami but I digress) Why was she designed this way?

idk

886:

Suggestions for website:

Both toggles/filters and tier statistics should be collapsed/hidden by default. I would even argue for tier statistics to be put in a separate tab like how Q&A responses and other stuff are.

The toggle for dark/light/medi/mami mode & small/large icons should be under “show/hide toggles & filters” instead of “I don’t want to see this stuff”.

A button to quickly collapse all tiers may be helpful.

Also it’s a minor thing but it slightly irks me that F tier is currently not ordered by universe perfectly.

1. My idea is that they're front and center so people can see them, and they don't come up again if the user doesnt want to see them because the info should be saved in the browser.

2. Good idea

3. i dont see the point in this but its not difficult to add so ig?

ill get to that next time i update the tierlist

885:

I don't see how Fall Aya is in C tier considering her bad killer with no damage potential at all on aoe, bad support, and how she practically has no anomaly breaks. It doesn't help that her LW is setup so horrendously to the point that line 1 and 6 doesn't have the usable killer set (beast killer). Like, she is extremely similar to A7 Cirno except that Cirno has breaks and Aya's only saving grace is that her damage is actually good provided her killers hit, however I don't think damage that only happens 10% of the time alone should shot her up to C tier.

Well Fallya fits the C tier definition of having a niche. Within her (extremely bad) killer she is actually very good. Better than Maidkasa within Maidkasa's DS. Her kit is pretty awful but her damage is broken on killer, which lets her be in C. Also saying "no damage potential on aoe" is a misnomer, it just has bad damage because her kit and killer sucks. But on killer in trios it is good. Which is C in a nutshlel

On a side note, C5> Eiki's note about her off killer damage is no longer true since Nitori now has 2.5m damage.

True, thx

884:

as super ayapass keeps shitting out a million luck mirrors for meta units I'd like to ask, if you'd order the current EX tier units by how much they become better by +1p, how'd you order them? maybe certain SS tier units if notable too

Not much change. Mv Aya is high SS, smiko is back to being above looishi. Aside from that i think everything stays the sameish

883:

I was wondering in a meta sense, what tiers of characters are worth pulling for, aka when is a character considered meta?

I don't think tierlist is good as a way to measure who you should pull as that largely depends on what content you plan to do and what characters you have in your party. So for example i would say there are situations where pulling a yang unit in A is better than pulling a yin unit in S if your box has strong yang characters that synergize well with said yang character while not having much for Yin. But that's just my opinion. I think characters in S or above are generally good characters you should always at least give a little thought to pulling.

882:

Can you recalc all the spells of ex Tojiko with the nurse yachie card, especially her LW? Seems like it would be quite a noteworthy LW for her tier between good killers, debuffs and generally decent buffs?

I will recalc her lw, aoe is useless and st is... yeah...

881:

C3 Sakuya should be lower in S. Compared to even C3≥ Nitori, her AoE damage happens to be a lot worse when both hit their (not particularly impressive) killers. Quick on skill 2 tends to cause a lot of issues in general. Her AoE only has party 3 Yang ATK/3 Crit ACC/0.5p along with Crit ATK on boost, which is not particularly amazing in terms of support. She has exactly one source of agility between her SCs and skills which heavily limits her realistic damage. In modern times, she almost always can't nuke or offer enough support, while having issues sustaining accuracy/sp. Her LW is still decent on killer but that only gets so far when she has issues getting pass the first two gauges. Poison inflict passive limits her choice of partners who are just not very good in general. In practice she was dead in a wide range of yang metal stages printed this year - even MV Ran with her myriad of issues managed to duo with l0gnako/nyshi to duo a few just by having a 100% stored power, better killers in general and breaking 7/4 (unlike C3 Sakuya's dated 5/2 break that also has no overflow) when the entire yang hard gang are known to suck between poor card options and having micro-issues everywhere. I think she should be at least lower than Laa1 Sakuya who can now fix her p issues better with urumi card.

Maybe? Will have to get back on this but i do think she's lower than Colguya for sure. Only problem is that she simply duos all swimsuit stages with nysen which throws a wrench in the argument but i see the general idea. I probably wouldn't put her below Pokesak though.

880:

Out of curiosity, who are the best stallers in the game? Not that it's a terribly useful thing unless they decide to do a "Hit 100 Turns" mission again considering how insane Tower (the usual stall use-case) HP is on the higher floors, and how damage drops off the more turns pass, but I'm curious. In Tower I found myself using Mumu for Skill Cooldown to make-up with worse Graze restoration skills.

I think EX Futo is immortal against 2 characters while L0o Satori, L0g Kanako and MV Mokou are immortal against 1 unit

879:

BP Fmors has "Killers are also Below Average" as a boon for some reason? Is that a boon?

No. Fixed.

878:

Do you think ex okina can go to SS eventually? Amazing breaks that are achievable without much sacrifice mean her floor is very securely high, on top of decent killers and actual damage even on res which is notably missing from the vast majority of pure breakers This is a stark contrast from units who just do nothing other than 7/3 breaks on AoE despite having a few more party buffs - cards exist after all

Maybe? Main concern rn is just her gauge 3 dmg doesn't seem up to par for SS tier while lacking support. Maybe with better cards/supports

Some suggestions for the website: Multiple filter applicable e.g. rarity + class. An easier way to collapse tiers. Filter by year of release at JP. Filter by LW target range

Aside from JP release date (which i dont really see the point of rn), sure. LW Calc stuff will take a while though.

877:

logwako aoe/st sc needs a recalc with new bis cards, we have 100% earth/liquid and earth/normal in the game now

ok

876:

idk if this has been already asked but and if it fits to tiering but: Will you eventually fully order A Tier units too or is that to janky? I am geniunely following the tiering and pull for them (have been playing for a while and I also I pull for a unit that´s often in the higher tiers) and sometimes I feel like some units in A tier are better than the other within the same tier. I don´t want to specify a character because like I said, I rather want to have some units within the A tier are better than the others. I do see it´s partically ordered but yeah, I´d love to see it ordered too. Why A Tier specifically? I mean if I am unlucky with getting an EX or SS (or if there´s a unit I am not interested in) tiered character, then my usual best option would be a character in A Tier

Unfortunately this is another thing i don't think we can do because while EX-S are a lot more coherent, A isn't really... and so me and hibi have a lot of differing opinions on A and how it would be ordered. For example half of A is just nukers who are tethered to gengs to even exist, and then me and hibi just value what little they have remaining differently compared to those in S or above who are just clearly better. though if you want, here is how i PERSONALLY currently evaluate A

(Exkutaka and exkosuzu are in s, everyone else not there is in b)

Overall you do make insane work, the tierlist helps alot, just wanted to praise you working on it

thank you :>

874 & 875 (they are basically the same subject):

who's actually the best G3 nuker in the game? i ask because L80 Yukari and L10.1 Flandre both have this in their description: L10.1 Flandre: "Basically the best g3 nuke in the game" L80 Yukari: "Basically the best G3 Nuke in the game"

It is Yukari. I have corrected it.

muflan: I don't see "high innate crit acc" when it's just +4 on aoe, and anyways I don't think crit acc on aoe is relevant, she breaks very late and you'd want someone to go before her and fb first (such as... mumi ikr)

somewhat related point: muflan has INSANE amount of consistency issue on g3 from having mid killer range like, she shits herself with cap crit and hth buffs, and then the 10% lines with just human/servant/older sister and no crit acc causes 400k+ dmg variance on g3 as soon as she's off killer, which creates comps that will never be theoretically consistent?

(also BOTH muflan and mvkari says "best g3 nuker in the game", so who's the best g3 nuker? or is the word "best g3 nuker" mean like a dozen of them)

The key detail you're missing is that Muflan has mad critmods that highly benefit from what enemies buff (agi) meaning she will be critting far far more than she should even off killer. In stages where enemies don't buff their agi... then she can be inconsistent, but it's really not a problem on critmod stages. You will know this when using her in practice. Her break problem is just something you have to work around, already factored into play. But she has praecard so it's not the worst thing ever.

873:

If Summer Bluemu had p0 scaling on her cards, let's say 100% for AoE/Solo, and 200% for LW, could she had been a lot better She feels like she has a great skeleton of a kit but felt like she was purposely held back, I don't think DMG to Res is the end all be all for units but she does feel like they're a bit scared of having too much of it She just feels like she needs a tad better buffs/debuffs but otherwise I could see her being raised to S, the breaks are probably the best I've seen from this game but Tec units always had this break role as of late

If bl4 had p0 killer, and slightly better support, she would be a strictly better version of Froyo. EX would be given. In retrospect, it's quite silly that LW has these trends where they just dedicate a class to dominate the meta for a few months (heal, spd, now tec...)

872:

I think it would be nice to have a "go back to the tierlist" button in the form responses section to go back easily. Also, I don't think it is intended, but in this section you have a "view form responses" button which redirects you... to the same place lol

Done.

Do you plan on doing someday a EBR (little) tierlist ? In my opinion, while being unique compared to the other contents, EBR are the most challenging and rewarding (try-hard/whale) content and they are added pretty regularly now. It is oftenly a content that, taken entirely, challenges an entire account, that's why I consider it as the "ultimate challenge content". It's true that their main goal isn't to farm efficiently stages so it's difficult to take them in account as much in this tierlist. But I still think that having your takes on which characters we should pull first for this mode could be nice (especially for people like me who have good characters, know how to play but aren't great experts at the game lol) Anyway, sorry for yapping so much and thank you for all the time and effort you give to the community !!

Thank you as well! I did have a discussion about it, and while I'm open to the idea, I just don't think it's feasible. Long story short, there are simply too many complications and nuances that we're just not equipped to handle atm.

871:

B5 Alice to E. Questionable breaks especially her burn breaking, horrid killer + specular, little to no buffs for her scalings, and party burn + party paralyze makes her feel like a detriment to the team as opposed to helping them. I don't see how she's much better than E1 Remi considering E1 Remi doesn't sabotage the team on nearly every aspect.

B5 Alice's LW is probably 4 times as good as the next best nuker in E, while still having great support for lower tier standards and access to real aoe breaks, so no drop

870:

Why is nurse Yachie even on S?????????????

Mediocre killers on AoE cannot be ignored like this. At a sub-200 killer range, she often needs enemies buffing themselves to let her elastic do the job

Yet no accuracy and crit atk in the entire kit (not just AoE) means she will still be very inconsistent even with this or actually hitting killers (unlike mufan/lootori who are known to be consistent if elastic memes work)

Both efes nitoris, exsak, susak, fallchimata, mugetsu, shecc, logsuwako and nursen also have killer ranges sub 200 and yet they're fine. why? because in content their killer is hit in they are known to usually be able to shred stages

it isn't ignored, it is still factored in as a con, but by itself it's not enough to warrant a drop like to A where killer is basically ignored regardless

She also has late breaks unlike Lr Aya

No atk/agi anoms for buff cleanse survival - 4 yin/4 agility are NOT enough buffs in any stages when she is also utterly limited in card options due to how she wastes all the slots buffing crit acc when she has like 15% crit rate max

Units like pink Miko get away with lack of accuracy because she already has every other buffs min/maxed into her kit which is very definitely NOT the case for Yachie

again idk why we are comparing to smiko but her aoe seems to be strong enough to work when buffed by characters like cs2 further complemented by the fact that she has good dmg to res and non 0 atk buffs like susak or some shit

on killer her aoe will probably be more realistic than shit like exsatono or yoshika who are likewise fine bcs they can and have duo'd even with their consistency problems and yachie is much the same

i also forgot to mention but based on calcs her res numbers are consistently higher than shit like nyfishi so there's also that

The 7 break on LW argument is even more hilarious

Even A16 Okina and A8 Tewi have 7 breaks on LW

What is even the point of glazing this if she can't break 7 on AoE and has the standard last hit breaks?

Did you see her class correctly? She is not SUPP so she is not fishing without a net worthy!

Her buffs are limited to the kaguya card instead of anything better because that's the only way to make her likely 0 LW usage works

i don't know why you're up in arms over this. it's a boon, boons aren't even really factored into tiering it's just expounding more on a character's kit as something she has that can be utilized. also still her lw has real def down, in tandem with 55% dmg to res... literally it just needs buffs (ez?)

The potential dest support argument is ridiculous. Even with separate inflic and main p skill, there is exactly one yin unit that she will work with - muremi, who isn't even a dest btw. Mathematically 3 crit acc is just that lackluster - not enough to make F1 Marisa/eyori 15-20% crit rate lines to crit. Having exactly one very viable partner and immediately falling apart without her is not the best assessment of unit strength especially since you did mention not to tier based on specific unit pairs only

this is something that is yet to be seen but yes i think she makes a good pairing with muremi and every other geng ex and probably mufan because her kit still somewhat agrees with itself and that support isn't useless, which is also the same for everyone else in s

in general her kit will die terribly off killer and is more consistent at failing than otherwise with a lot of caveats that can't be fixed in a duo

She should really be A or even high B IMO

well this will remain to be seen but rn it looks like her kit has just barely enough to scrape together for s based on her personal ability to pair to where it seems like it should work out and if it doesn't then drop... but rn she seems fine, her damage isn't even worse than shit like c3 yukari

addendum: yachie aoe can either run praecard (for def down) or c3 mystia bis for 6 agi up per gauge. This is in comparison to shit like maidyoshika who doesn't even have rank 1 buffs

does that mean all of them should drop? no because like i said they work in accordance with the guidelines and yachie seems like she will play much the same if less optimal. if she starts frauding then we have a discussion on our hands... but hell her res dmg is better than almost everyone in s

anyways as far as im concerned the biggest flaws yachie seems to have is having 0 yes 0 crit atk and bad util outside of the random party 1.2p on her 2nd skill. everything else i think is fixable with proper teammates like everyone else in s

all yes ALL of the S characters have lacking buffs between gauges much like yachie

along with p issues, thats like signature s. performing well when that's solved is on point for yachie it's just adding acc to the mix because ...??? but that's why she's bottom s

utterly limited in card options due to how she wastes all the slots buffing crit acc

this is also 100% solved with any of the ex tier gengs and her duos aren't a meme cuz of the not having p on her inflict skill. anyhow no reason to lower her rn, as a matter of fact i can see her above ekari cuz ekaris lw... is rlly not allat lmao

its not even like "Well if yachie drops everyone under pokesak drops too!!!" I dont think any of these characters should drop. like ive said though The gap between coldguya and lognae is almost worthy of a tier difference on its own

question to this person, did you think nurse yachie was high SS or alike? shes a very Low S like the LOWEST in that tier and its only because she barely scrapes by in everything relevant

any con you can say to her applies to 3+ of the characters in S, and yachie mysteriously has def down, so she still has unique pros over them. right now she just has a low cap, kinda it

869:

for the website, do you think that you could move the changelog button so that he is not in the "i dont want to see this". personally, i would put it right before the tier list, after the filter. ( and in an ideal world, maybe add somehothing to show that something new had been add ? no idea to suggest tho :D)

i think later i will try to pivot to having it be its own little thing in the corner of the screen. not now though (very busy)

868:

The Form Reponse part of the site looks to be broken? Regardless of if accessed while the rest of the site is in Light or Dark mode, the Dark mode SDT background appears, but the first responses have a black outline and are more centered and differently formatted from the rest of the responses regardless of the mode. Also, relatedly, in Light Mode Medi responses can be hard to read if the text extends enough to end up going over certain parts of the tower

i think i fixed it...? trying to get to it

867:

Please add aoe shot calcs of more modern units on the calc sheet, it is extremely outdated seeing how sanmu focus, lootori spread, cz2 spread all have ~10-40% higher calculated dmg than shinki spread, the current highest calc on the sheet, even without counting silly stuff like perma def down and stored power

er.. ok ig

866:

lower H5 Keine, A6 Koakuma, W3 Warsee down to D

H5 Keine without rebirth (and with rebirth) have really bad support, and require external support to have consistent Acc (through the form of Boosting) for herself and the party, personal support is very low, 3 yin atk/ crit atk (if you save her 3rd skill).

She can run the Shion card but her personal support is just not good in the first place to run that.

A6 Koakuma is the worst offender as she is super slow, lack anom inflict on AOE and have near-zero support after using her skills. She's very slow too so if you used her 1st skill on first turn she's essentially deadweight.

W3 Warsee is just bad. I can't even really tell you why but she's incompotent at everything she does, supporting breaking or dealing damage, I find it incredibly frustrating.

These supportive characters just don't truly provide enough to work most of the time.

all 3 of these characters fit into the C tier archetype of "impractical but can work if you really force it." in the first place, all chars are tiered with rein in mind, so h5 keine doesn't make sense. a6 koakuma is basically the same unit with a better lw. as for warsee, she is known to be ass, but her AoE can nuke (i tried yesterday, it does technically work) meaning they're not really worse than certain other characters that have similar problems in c like ex lily

865:

It probably doesn't matter a whole lot given how low-tier she is, but it's a little misleading for Enchanter's notes to note in her cons that she has "No AoE Anom Breaks". Wording might imply she does have ST anom breaks somewhere in her kit, when she in fact lacks any anom breaks in her attacks.

ill just update it

More of a question, but is part of why EX Sumireko's AOE isn't great the horrific accuracy? When using her I've noticed that despite the ostensibly 60-70% it feels more like 50% at times.

yeah but thats also par for the course with dests

Also, might not be the right people to ask this, but why is EX Eika's SP production on Spell Cards so, so ass? Easy to see why you call her SP economy bad and needing a duo partner to address.

no p regen on passive or aoe + kinda mid innate p gain on her aoe

864:

Have a button so you can see all the banners running currently so you know the best one to pull

i dont think i can do this but i can link Ayako's site which does do that

862:

recall a few months ago there was a curve presented in the tl (which I can't seem to find anymore) along the lines of "ex tier is lootori/cz2 at the top, then cs2/mvkasen slightly below, then f1 mors and sanmu WAY below", how is the current relation of ex/ss tier given all the drastic changes that happened?
- sanmu, logwako, mug completely mogged
- coco, exmami, nursen heavily dropped
- mumi, muflan, nysen, mvkari, looshi skyrocketed (even bunnyori to a lower extent)
- also lootori above cz2 now???
the whole placement feel so distant from that of a few months ago so I'd appreciate if you enlighten us what criteria got changed that caused such a massive shake up in the top tiers

i don't understand this question. this is a tierlist, not a monolith. if characters stop working they drop. if they work in content they're not "supposed" to they go up. no criteria change or anything like that, some of these characters were just never that good.

also pls add back the feedback form link to the google docs thx

its still there?

861:

does c3 koishi still deserve b tier? s3 is nice but with no boost/graze or sc buffs its basically all her support and i cant imagine her aoe doing any damage ever.

she in fact does not. c3 kogasa may also drop. nice catch

can you guys calc kisume aoe on both p0 eff and full eff just because i think its funny she did something once tysm

will get to it this weekend

860:

- Could you please explain how yall use the shorten breaking acronym (ex. 6/3, 7/4 and in one of the responses I saw a 9/3????)

first number is anomaly breaks on the first gauge, second gauge is the second number, provided only one skill is used. So a character who is 7/3 typically has 4 inflict on skill and 3 on their aoe, meaning once that skill is gone it's a normal 3 break aoe (nykoishi)

7/7 is characters like bunny toyohime who have 3 inflict on 2 skills, and their aoe inflicts 2. and then there's cases liek c3 cirno who are either 6/6 if 1 skill per gauge but if you use both inflict skills she can inflict 9 anomalies and fb everyone on g1

- wdym “What is say, a 650k aoe at cap can quickly become 300k at 5/12.” Emphasis on the 5/12

characters on the calc sheet are calced at 12sp (unless they have rein) and this number drops when their sp is reduced naturally

- The form tracking page on light mode makes the pink and red colored text impossible to read. Also Kuro’s color is impacted on Dark Mode (It turns white lol)

i will have to fix that thanks for bringing that to my attention